BEEMAN’S BLOG – SEASON 2, EPISODE 11
"POWERLESS"
WARNING SPOILERS ARE CONTAINED WITHIN
Sorry for getting the blog up a little late this week.
Sadly, here at the HEROES offices we’ve dropped below a skeleton crew to a nobody crew, and I got stuck doing all the computer uploading, research and spell/fact checking alone. If there are more mispellings and fact mistakes than usual, forgive me!
So… Tonight our eleventh episode aired. It was written by Jeph Loeb and directed by Allan Arkush, both of who did their usual outstanding job! And I hope you all agree it is a fitting end to this segment of the season.
This time I thought I would do something a little different. I’ve been meaning to interview our composers Wendy Melovin and Lisa Coleman since way back since last season. I’ve actually tried to do it several times, but our schedules have been notoriously out of sync with each other. Now we finally hooked up.
The music of HEROES is I think, one of its most important elements. It is moody and ethereal and both unsettling and uplifting all at once. The instrumentation and orchestration are highly unusual. There’s also a lot of it. Two or three weeks before the show is on the air, we have a spotting session, where the producers Wendy and Lisa go through the picture and specify where we want music and what emotional effect we want out of the music. At the end of those sessions we always joke, saying, “well, this time there were only five music cues. All of act one. All of act two. All of act 3. All of Act 4 and all of act 5." By the way, that’s A LOT. Thirty to thirty five minutes of a forty-two minute show. I’d guess that’s maybe double an average TV show. And Wendy and Lisa will then have, frequently, less than a week to compose and record all of it.
I met them in their studio which is a unique and funky place in Hollywood, they call the “tree house” It’s a low ceilinged space, up a winding flight of steps, that is both cozy and crammed with so many instruments, mixing boards and hard drives that you can hardly believe it fits. They gave me a cup of coffee and we got started...
GREG BEEMAN: So, first of all, how long have you two known each other.
WENDY: Oh. Since we were two.
GB: Really? You’re kidding?
LISA: Our Dad’s were both studio musicians in Los Angeles. They knew each other and played together. They actually were in this same building for many years.
W: The A & M building. Our first band together was when we were 7. It was called “The Waldorf Salad”
L: Which isn’t a name we picked. Our parents picked because at that time we all went to a Waldorf School, Highland Hall, here in L.A.
W: The first real band we had – the first time we made money we were about 11 with my brother and sister.
GB: Cool. I’m so sorry I’m no naïve. Is this all common knowledge?
W: For Wendy and Lisa fans, yeah. But not to the general public.
GB: Okay great. And so, when did you hook up with Prince?
L: I joined Prince’s band in ’78 or ’79. He was looking for a female keyboard player. A friend of mine brought him to see me and I ended up joining his band.
GB: And you went to Minnesota?
L: Yes, where it is SO cold.
GB: How about Wendy?
L: She was visiting me in Minneapolis, and there was a sound check.
W: There was another musician who, well, lets say, was having a bad day and didn’t show up for sound check.
L: I suggested that Wendy play for the sound check, and so she sound checked with the band and she just shredded it. Prince was blown away.
GB: And the rest was history.
W: The rest was history.
GB: Okay, so how and when did the transition to music for movies and television happen.
W: Always. We always had an interest in it. It just seemed natural. Lisa father was an experimental musician, who worked on many films and art projects.
L: And Wendy’s father was a top piano player who played on many soundtracks, especially with Jerry Goldsmith as well as other composers.
W: It was a natural progression. Even before Prince, we always wanted to do music for film. We used to listen to records of soundtracks and read the score.
L: I was a total geek. Not cool at all. It was always a culture shock for me to be in the pop world.
GB: So what was the path that led to doing your own scores?
W: A movie called TOYS was our first opportunity. We did a title sequence for Hans Zimmer. And then Trevor Horn. And then Mark Isham, and he handed a movie over to us, which was the movie DANGEROUS MINDS with Michelle Phieffer, our big break.
L: Which, of course, mostly led to us doing a lot of low budget urban movies.
W: We started doing a lot of bad movies. Bad TV pilots.
L: Some were good. Some you don’t even want to mention.
W: And then we met Allan Arkush.
GB: That was a big turning point?
W: That was everything. That changed everything.
GB: What happened.
L: He called us up. He knew our work and he wanted to meet us. He was doing a David Kelley TV show called “SNOOPS” and he said they wanted it to be a little more rock and roll, a little offbeat.
W: We heard what it was about, and we were like, “I don’t know.” We weren’t sure we were interested.
L: But we went to Allan’s office to meet him. And Allan knows EVERYTHING about music. Everything about our Dads. Everything. More than we ever knew.
W: And there on his wall was a picture, of my brother, who had died a few years before. Allan had directed a movie called GET CRAZY, and my brother had worked on it. And there was this picture of Allan and my brother, who had passed away, and Allan didn’t even know it, but right then we knew, “this is fate.”
L: And we’ve done everything with Allan ever since then.
W: 150 hours of music later. And it has changed everything.
GB: And it all led to HEROES…
W: And HEROES changed everything again.
GB: Why?
W: Because it’s a true artistic endeavor. Every week. A lot of times with music for television, what your asked to do, it’s like bad porn.
GB: What does that mean?
W: You have almost no screen time to make any statement, to build any character. You don’t own any of the black, meaning the time when the act ends and it goes to black for a few seconds before commercial, and so you’re supposed to just jam home whatever the main emotion it is they’re going for. Nothing is contrapuntal. Nothing is subtle.
L: It’s so uninspired and uninspiring. With most TV it’s a job, a craft, not an art. You have short scenes and the music cues are so short. And network executives get scared whenever you DO experiment, so it’s frustrating.
GB: For instance?
W: Well, a small example, on CROSSING JORDAN, which was a good show and good musically, but originally Jordan’s character was supposed to be Irish. So we tended to play this up with a lot of Irish instruments and instrumentation. And sure enough the note comes down, “Can we back off the Irish stuff a bit.”
L: TV in general wants to hit every demographic, to appeal to the broadest audience possible. So, in doing that, the music tends to become generic. You can’t be hot or cold, you have to be lukewarm. If it’s funny, it’s a rim shot. If it’s sad it’s strings. If it’s exciting, it’s drums, and so on.
W: When it came to HEROES, We had done one cue for the pilot that was very dreamy. And another, exciting cue for an action scene. And Tim Kring came in to see what we were doing, and he said “Hey, let’s try the dreamy cue under the action scene.” And that became the cue under for Claire, when the trains on fire. Which has become a signature piece of music for the show.
L: And that was huge. When Tim said, “Let’s play the dreamy cue under the action scene,” it changed everything. It focused our minds on what this show could be and how it could be different.
GB: Did Tim talk a lot about what he wanted the music to be at the pilot stage?
W: He talked in a general way. He talked about the emotions and the directions of the characters. He gave us the idea he wanted to be incredibly unusual musically. And he definitely gave us the idea that we could have a lot of freedom and that we could really experiment.
L: He talked a lot about about subtext also. In HEROES every scene has MASSIVE subtext. The music is making the viewer unconsciously listen in a way that makes them believe there is more going on than what you see.
W: We have to work the same way you and Allan direct. We ask ourselves, “How are we going to tell this story and get from point “a” to point “b” emotionally?” What was Allan telling us, that in this 11th episode he had a scene in the vault that was two pages, but that it was so dense, it took 65 setups to tell the story? Well, that’s how the music is too. There are A LOT of layers, there’s A LOT going on in the music.
L: For instance, in the scenes between HRG and Claire, on the surface you may have a scene where the father is taking the daughter to school. On the surface it’s mundane. But there are layers and layers in that relationship. Layers of deceit. Layers of lies. Layers of mistrust. Layers of loyalty. And, also, always, and very strongly, layers of love. Well, all those things have to be told musically.
W: We do it the same way you guys shoot it. When you do a big swooping crane in, we have to support it. And... What’s that lens that you always use? The one Allan used so much in this episode, so that HRG’s glasses are in focus at the same time Bob is in focus.
GB: The swing and tilt lenses?
W: Yeah. Well, we have to do that too. We have to tell two or more very different stories, at the same time with the music.
L: Themes of intention. Themes of subtext. Themes of implication.
GB: That’s interesting, because I find in my own work, these days, and now that I’ve matured and hopefully gotten better, that I do A LOT of very complicated things with the camera and the blocking, all to support the emotion of a scene. But, when it’s all put together, it’s all very subtle. It isn’t really noticed. I experience the music on this show the same way. It affects you, and it moves you, actually very strongly, spiritually really... but you don’t notice it doing so. Maybe your work is like mine, it’s best when it’s not calling attention to itself.
W: If you study it, it’s much more complex than it seems. On the surface, much of the time it’s pastoral. But if you break it down, if, for instance, every piece of music was a color, if you broke it down and looked at it, you couldn’t tell what color was the main one, there are so many.
GB: Well the music works, everyone loves it. I actually don’t think you ever get network notes. Do you?
W: No. Allen and you give notes in the spotting session. Tim always has notes. There are notes from Tim and Dennis and Allan at the playback, and we still shift cues around. But, no, I think this is the first time in fifteen years that we really don’t get any network notes.
GB: Whose actually playing? Do you bring in musicians?
W: Just the two of us play everything.
L: It’s where the classical training comes in. We can play everything. And we’ve been building, and spending a lot of money of building up our music and sound effects library for this show.
(At this point I look around. Damn. There are a lot of hard drives here.)
W: We have 3 huge Intel Macs, we have a hard raid system, and we have so much information.
L: We need a lot. There are 30 to 35 minutes of music per show, which is unheard of in TV.
W: And we do not re-use music. I know it seems like we can or should. But when you get into these scenes, you can’t. There is always some new element or layer that makes it not possible to re-use an old cue.
L: We have our legends. What music goes with what character?
GB: What are some examples.
L: Mohinder gets a signature piano sound, which is now used at the end of the show.
W: There are actually four completely different pianos that we use in the show.
L: Mohinder's is a Bulgarian piano. We play it super compressed, like it’s coming out of a faraway radio – that’s because he’s so analytical, he’s always trying to figure it out, trying to dial it in.
W: Peter is marcato strings.
GB: What’s “marcato?”
W: It’s just an instruction to the musician of how to play the instrument. Marcato indicates to make quick, strong jabs with the bow. It felt right to play his character that way, like, “I’m going to be a hero now.”
L: Hiro is always marimbas and bassoons, always staccato to emulate a clock, like time, controlling time.
GB: I also hear a lot of, what sounds like wind, like controlled noise, wind moving through pipes.
W: We do a lot of wind, it’s true.
GB: It adds tension.
L: We have a lot of different wind. We used to do a really cool thing with the character of Claude, which was wind mixed with voices. It felt like there was a ghost in the room. There are also a lot of drones and chants that we mix into a lot of the music. This is because Mohinder, the narrator, is Indian.
W: Whenever Niki is being possessed by Jessica, there’s a piece we use that uses Indian voices chanting, which gives the scene a feeling of her being possessed. There’s a possession when she’s in the middle of a violent act she’s not in control of. So we use incantations to underscore this.
L: With Matt, when he's reading minds, we play voices, chanting voices, backwards, because it seems to us, that's his experience, he's drawing thoughts out of people's minds, so those thoughts would travel backwards.
GB: Wow. Which of your father’s was an experimental musician. It sounds like it’s served you well.
L: Mine was. And yes it has. Although now I call it, a “sound artist.”
GB: Okay, tell me about Shenkar. He gets his name in the credits next to your composer credit.
W: Well, he is probably most famous for being the vocalist in Peter Gabriel’s score for “The Last Temptation of Christ.” And also for “The Passion of the Christ.” And, as I said, Tim gave us the idea that we could do ANYTHING on this project. So we approached Shenkar and asked him if he’s like to be the guiding voice for the heroes on their quest. To me he IS the voice of HEROES. Years from now, whenever they parody the show on MAD TV or SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE or whatever, I’m sure they will parody him, because he is the voice of the show.
GB: What is his nationality?
W: He’s Indian. But he’s here in L.A. a lot. Here and there. He’s a very mysterious guy.
L: And he never lets you see him sing.
GB: Huh? How does that work?
L: I write down some instructions of what we’re looking for, and lay down three or four minutes of a drone in “D” and also in “E” and “A” and he literally comes in, in the middle of the night, when nobodies here and lays down his voice over the drone.
GB: That’s crazy.
W: That’s Shenkar. He's our mysterious little goblin.
L: We originally just wanted everything he did long and smooth and legato. Lately I’ve been wanting him to come in again and do some quicker pieces.
GB: Okay, last thing. Tell me about Allan Arkush who directed tonight’s episode
W: he is the most musical person I’ve ever worked with, even in the music business. He knows exactly what he wants.
L: His notes are SO specific. To the frame what he wants and to the instrumentation that he wants.
W: And he never forgets a note. If he says something at the spotting and weeks later at the playback, you didn’t do it. Allan remembers.
L: Allan is the best. We really are so connected to him now. It's a great relationship.
GB: Wow, That’s great. Thank you so much. Maybe now the fans will be able to listen more carefully to the amazingly deep music you guys write for this show.
And that’s it!
Fans, I wish I could tell you what's happenin g, but I truly do not know what the future holds. None of us in Hollywood knows when the strike will be over, or if when and how many more episodes of HEROES will happen this year.
But no matter what, we WILL be back, serving you to the best of our abilities, as soon as we can.
As for this blog – it will go dark now – until the show is back on the air. Thank you all for this opportunity. This blog is half like a term paper I have to write every week, and half an incredible opportunity to become more directly linked to you guys… Our fans who are our life’s blood. It's become a very special experience for me to put it out there for you every week.
Until we meet again…. PICTURES!!!
ZACH AND KRISTEN
TIM KRING AND ALLEN ARKUSH ON SET
CALL ME "BOB"
OVER KRISTEN TO THE CREW AT WORK
MOHINDER WONDERS "WHY DOES SYLAR GET ALL THE FUN?" MOLLY DESPAIRS!
DANIA AND KRISTEN
KRISTEN HOLDS UP A DOORWAY
SYLAR WANTS PUDDY-TAT POWER!
MASI AND MILO ON SET
HRG IN HIS PAJAMAS -"WHAT'S FOR BREAKFAST?"
HAYDEN ANOTHER DAY AT WORK
DIRECTOR SUPPORTS ACTOR
ALLEN AND JACK
ME 'N ALI L.
ALLEN DIRECTS HAYDEN ON SET
TWO GENIUSES (LOEB AND ARKUSH)
TWO MORE GENIUSES (ME AND ARKUSH)
DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY NATE GOODMAN
CHRISTINE ROSE - THE QUEEN
NOAH AND DANA ON SET
ACTUAL SHOT OF 1ST A.D. ROBERT SCOTT CHASING ME OFF SET (APPARENTLY ALL THE PICTURE TAKING SLOWS DOWN PRODUCTION?!?)
posted by Greg Beeman @ 11:57 PM
357 comments
357 Comments:
Greg, please tell us that Nathan will be okay. I am really disappointed to see that once again Nathan is put in a dangerous position again. I really want him to be more like Peter or Hiro but you guys keep putting him in this difficult situation. Suffice to say, I'll stop watching the show if he's not on the show anymore.
Oh, you guys. What did us Nathan fans ever do to you? Didn't we suffer enough ALL SUMMER LONG? :(
That said, the scene with Nathan and Peter and Hiro and Adam facing off was incredibly powerful, nicely done.
I can’t believe it’s over for now, I’m gonna miss Heroes on Mondays THANK YOU cast and crew for all your hard work and thank you Beeman for this wonderful blog.
I have to say I really hope they didn’t kill Nathan and let Maye and Sylar still live. Maya is just not a good character and Sylar needs to die because him doing the same thing over and over is not entertaining. Now that he has his powers back what’s to stop him from blowing up the city so he could then become president like he wanted to last season.
I just hope Nathan really isn’t dead because there is no reason why he should be dead he is great and I hope you know that he is a popular character. If Matt can survive four gunshot wounds to the chest and Sylar can survive being stabbed than Nathan should still live.
PLEASE BRING NATHAN BACK
Greg, what gives? Why do we always have to suffer for an indefinite period not knowing Nathan's fate? I hope you'll show what happen to him in the Jules Verne Film Festival screening. Otherwise, this is really cruel.
The Sylar cat image is BEGGING to be LOL!Cats-ified.
"I EM ON UR SIELUR
ABSURBIN ALLZ UR POWIRZ"
BRING NATHAN BACK PLEASE!! His character barely get any character development this sesason and now he's in danger again. Why don't you pick other character to be in danger for a change?
I have to agree with previous comments. After a volume where he received very little screentime, he gets shot in a rather underwhelming finale and is in danger yet again. I was looking forward to a Nathan/Claire reconnect, more interaction with Peter, working with different characters, etc. His shooting was very disappointing.
I enjoy this blog and read it every week (it's a great connect!) but I hope the next volume's storylines are more compelling with a more even focus on characters. I also hope there is more involvement from characters such as Nathan, Angela, and others. I was incredibly interested by the idea of "Generations" but I found the execution lacking. When will we find out about stuff like the inherited nature of abilities? I am finding that my enthusiasm for the show has dampened.
Dearest Mr. Beeman,
The blog and pictures are a fantastic delight after each episode and we can never express enough gratitude for them. Thank you.
Yes, this episode was pretty damn awesome, indeed. You guys did a truly excellent job. Two thumbs waaay up. 'Be a shame for it to get ruined by a tragic consequence, really.
We love you and everybody involved in the writing and producing of Heroes. I mean it, every single soul. True love and dedication, I'm not kidding. So it is of the utmost importance for you all to remember nothing is ever unconditional, and for this love to remain pure and untainted NATHAN PETRELLI MUST LIVE.
Zach and Kristen are too cute together, thank you so much for the pictures! I hope they keep coming even with no new episodes at the moment, because I love them :[
Not Nathan and Nikki! I love both those guys! Oh and when is Claude comin back? Thanks for the blog Beeman! Love it! x
Thanks so much for yet another wonderful blog with brilliant pictures. Zach and the kitten are just too cute for words <3
And also many thanks for yet another great chapter (season?) and spectaculair finale episode. I thoroughly enjoyed every single episode we've gotten this year and I can't wait for the show's return.
Thank you so much for this blog, Mr. Beeman! The pictures, the interview, and again the behind-the-scenes look at how you create my favorite show!
I absolutely LOVED this episode. It was incredible. My favorite part was when Mohinder and Sylar got reunited, their scenes were FANTASTIC! Jeph Loeb deserves a round of applause for the writing here, IMO.
To all the people worried about Nathan: I think he'll live, or get healed by Peter somehow. Adrian Pasdar is too good to let go ;)
Zach and Kristen are too cute, hope fr more Sylar/elle scenes.
But I'm not against the idea of Mohinder/Elle. There's some chemistry here.
Disappointment is an understatement, Greg. I think Nathan fans have been patient enough throughout this season even when he's given little to no screen time and miniscule plot. But this is just too much.
I don't think it's too much to ask for our favorite characters to be given equal treatment as other characters like Peter, Hiro, etc. To strung us along like this until God-knows-when is just cruel. I hope that episode 12 screening will include Nathan in it.
Thank you so much for writing this blog; I have enjoyed it immensely! Reading about all the work you guys put into making Heroes an awesome show is inspiring.
Heroes is my favorite show on TV. I really think you take TV as an art to a higher level. Everything about it is awesome and so well put together. Thanks for making such a great show!
Guys, what's the point for you guys to go through all of that to resurrect Nathan in S1 if you plan on killing him now? What a waste of time. You guys have created a fantastic character who have undergone a good character development. However, we haven't see what he could do once he's fully working for the good like Peter, et all.
Before this, there's nothing that will make me stop watching Heroes but this is just too upsetting. This entire storyline look like it's written at the last minute and without any thought of what will happen next. The bottom line is, expect myself and many other Nathan fans to walk out of this series if he's no longer on the show.
Did you know that Television Without Pity broke its server seconds after this episode ended? Many people were upset about what happened to Nathan and they were posting all together at the same time to the point that now the first 29 pages are basically a bunch of mess showing how unhappy they are with this finale.
This whole season has been disappointing. You guys added too many new characters and instead of killing them, you decide to kill the original characters who are far more interesting? That to me shows that you guys no longer know what's good for the show and what's not good for the show.
Once again, Mr. Beeman, lovely blog. I've enjoyed the music since the pilot episode. I LOVE music. Most musical scores in movies that I love, I buy. Goes the same for TV shows... by the way, when WILL the Heroes soundtrack go on sale? :D
I will add my voice to all the others you are hearing - please bring back Nathan. I watched the clip of Kristen at E! Online that says the writers are split about whether or not to bring him back. I can understand that. I can understand that it sort of cheapens the death to just immediately bring him back in ep 12. Who knows, it might make Peter grow up a bit. Although, I think it will actually hurt him more than help him. Peter is very fragile and Nathan is the most important person to him. If you kill him off, I think it will push Peter over the edge, and I would hate to see that happen, as he is my favorite. But as much as I love Peter, he's not quite the same without Nathan... I love them together and have missed seeing them together. For that brief 5 minute stint that we saw them together last night, I was ecstatic.
So while I can see the conflict, please, bring him back. Adrian Pasdar is an extremely talented actor and his character is very important to the show. I really love all the characters and hate to see anything happen to them. But I agree with what several others have said - to bring back HRG, and Maya (and *cure* Sylar) but allow Nathan to die, would be a travesty. It would almost be cheating, I think.
I would still be a fan of the show, because this show rocks. And this last episode knocked my socks off. So I would still faithfully watch... but I definitely would be disappointed.
However, all that being said, I hope the strike ends soon and we see you back here sooner rather than later. I heard there is going to be a big Heroes shindig on Dec 14 or 15 or something in L.A. where a clip of episode 12 will be shown...
Um, can you see me? This is me pouting. :p I live no where close to L.A., so I won't be able to attend. You say that this blog will go dead until the show comes back on the air... can't you come back and give us a small blog of that L.A. event? For those of us who can't attend? :) Pretty please?
Eh, well, it was a good try. :) Thanks again for the blog! I'll be waiting!!!
~Nicky
Thank you so much for this blog and keeping us up on what has been happening behind the scenes, Mr. Beeman. Though I haven't loved this season, I have continued to love everyone involved with the show.
I thought last night's episode was the best ever. So much tension and me squealing a lot, and whoever decided to give the Sylindar back to the fans??? Really needs brownies. I mean, really. Zachary and Sendhil just light up the screen together, and everyone in my household was loving it.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I wait with bated breath for Volume 3, whenever that occurs.
Greg,
I hope that the writing gets back up to the level of Season 1. Last season I was obsessed, and now I am barely interested. You have a lot of great actors and you barely give them anything to work with. For gods sake, give Kristin Bell something interesting to say! Hayden and Jack too. Aaaaargh!
dont kill nathan, kill syler, save niki.....URRGH!!!!
the show is perfect as it is, i never know what will happen next! when will the music be released on cd? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE release a cd and give Wendy and Lisa a bigger segment on the season 2 dvd set. they are such an integral part of the show. it would be great to show their process for start till final lockdown of an episode.
Wow! Nathan and Angela are my favorite characters so that ending floored me. Angela's action actually made my stomach feel sick. Great job. Angela has done so many bad things, but this one... I don't think it's redeemable and that scares me. :(
cause then Peter will just kill her and I won't have Cristine on my TV anymore. And I don't care how bad she is, I just want her to love her sons. :)
I know this wasn't your orginal ending. Is there is a way you can talk about what you changed and why. I think I see some pictures from that ending in there?
And yes Cristine is the Queen. I just can't look at her for like four months while I recuperate from that ending.
I was not going to join the raging Nathan fans because I had faith in you and did not believe for a second that the writers would be stupid enough to kill off Nathan.
But then I have to hear from Kristin Veich that the writing and production stuff is undecided whether to bring him back. You have to be joking, right?
Wasted potential and chemistry doesn't even begin to describe it if that is true. Why did you make Claire his daughter if there was never going to be a follow up? They have hardly interacted and there is still so much potential. We also don't know what the Petrelli parents were up to and Nathan is a key figure in this, too.
But most of all you can't kill one of the brothers. Peter's and Nathan's relationship was one of the cores of the first season and keeping them apart for this volume lessened my enjoyment of the show a great deal. Peter's character in particular suffered from the separation because it wasn't used for any character development. Peter and Nathan have one of the most interesting brother relationships I have seen on television; it was one of my favorite aspects of the show. Milo and Adrian have fantastic chemistry and Adrian is among the strongest actors of the cast.
I can only repeat myself. What an incredibly waste, if you don't bring him back.
Tim Kring apologized to fans and promised to fix things in the next volume. Killing off Nathan is NOT THE WAY TO DO IT!
There are so many different avenues you can take Nathan to. He barely has any interaction with his daughter, Claire. What's the point of making Claire his daughter if she's not even going to have proper interaction with him? That brief scene in season 1 and even shorter scene in season 2 did not count. They were not even father/daughter bonding.
And then there is his awesome relationship with Peter, which is the foundation of this show. I heard you guys wait until the last minute to cast Nathan and Peter. To actually waste away Adrian Pasdar after all of that hard work is such a disappointment.
Most of all, I don't understand why we Nathan fans have to suffer through this all over again. I actually cried in my workplace the last time you put Nathan in cliffhanger. It's especially cruel if you make us wait for unknown months only for us to find out that he's no longer on the show. At that point, I'll be really angry like the rest of the fans and would no longer have interest in the show.
If Nathan is dead, I will probably stop watching the show. And that will be with a great sadness in my heart.
I love this show. I really do. But I love it because of its characters and how they interact. The fancy powers are just special effects that are cool and add an extra layer to it all. Nathan Petrelli is extremly important to the story, since Peter is most interesting when interacting with Nathan, and Claire as well. If Nathan is gone for good, all that disappears.
I can't even tell you how incredibly disappointed I am with you killing him off. I'm honestly considering not coming back to watching the show when it continues.
BOO!
So it looks like I'm not the only one who thinks that it'll be a waste to kill Nathan now when he hasn't even interacted with Claire that much.
Sadly, vol 2 doesn't air here in Singapore till next year. Which is sad, really... but god bless the www! Now Volume 2's come to a close, what am I to do?!?!? More importantly, how will I go on with my life knowing Nathan is dead?!?!? (Haha. Dramatic, much?)
Dead Nathan + Claire's healing blood = Alive Nathan? "Just because you die on HEROES doesn’t mean you won’t come back and do a few more episodes" ;D
Anyway, I just have to say the finale was brilliantly done, given the fact that the whole season had to end on such "short notice".
Can't wait for vol 3!
Why have Heroes writers fallen in love with death as a plot device? You guys seem to think the excitement comes from who will die next. I'm tired of it. And you all could have done a much better job with people like Ando and Nathan. Volume 3 better be much improved or it's thanks for nothing.
Thanks for that insight on the behind the show music interview. I learned a lot. It's really neat to see how much work goes into the show through all different artistic loops. Your blog makes it possible for the people behind the camera to get their richly deserved time in the sun.
As for tonight's episode:
Wowsers! Nice finish for the season finale!
I, like many others, like Nathan and would be sad to see him go.
Elle gets more intriguing and layered every episode she's on the screen! I love seeing her become so aware of her surroundings as her vulnerabilities are exposed and she starts to become enlightened of her dad's true nature. Great dynamic, I hope to see you explore her character more.
This episode also seemed to be a lot more together and focused then last week's episode. It's left me excited to see what journeys you'll be taking all of our favorite characters in Vol 3. =D
Until Heroes returns, I'll faithfully wait... at least we'll have the weekly online graphic novels to keep us company until you guys come back to visit TV land. :P
Miles of smiles!
I have to join to the others and say, don´t kill Nathan! It would be incredible waste! He was the only character who had some personal goal this season. Peter was obviously lost without him. You can´t destroy Petrelli chemistry because it is the very core of the show. It was the main thing missing this season. The episode became so much better when they both were together. And what about some interaction between him and Claire? Where is that?
Tim Kring apologized to fans for mistakes. And kill off Nathan would be another HUGE mistake. It would destroy one of the main storylines, you can´t do that.
I am fan of Nathan, but most, I am a fan of Adrian Pasdar who is an excellent actor. I love Heroes but I am afraid that if Nathan wouldn´t be there any more, I quit watching. I am sorry.
I wanted to write some good things about the last episodes but the end destroyed it all.
You have introduced lots of new characters who were barely developed. So you kill the old, interesting characters to make place for...what exactly? What is the point of Maya or Monica of being in the show? Don´t kill Nathan just because you want to show us another five or so episodes with Maya yelling and screaming and Monica trying to be a hero which only gets her killed.
The most favorite part of the last episode was Nathan´s flight with Matt. Another undeveloped relationship.
Don´t you DARE to kill Nathan!
Ezri
I am so upset right now it's not even funny. I honestly hope that All you behind Heroes are not stupid enough to keep Nathan dead. Being a fan of Nathan is hard because your always killing him off or we get little to no screentime whatsoever.
Nathan is actually my favorite character because he has soooo much potential, but you guys don't want to show it for some reason. He has great chemistry with all the other chacters. Him and Matt together are gold, Loved when he met Claire, He even made me like Niki for an episode last season, Him and Hiro are always great together, and ofcourse him and Peter.
I know there are a lot of Peter fans out there but there is no Peter without Nathan. Same with No Nathan without Peter. Their relationship is the strongest on the show and we had to deal with them being seperated practically the whole 11 episodes then you wanna tear them apart.
Next season I would love to see Nathan and Peter and Claire band together and go after The Company. But will the writers be smart enough to do that or be dumb and keep Nathan dead and ruin the show even more.
Also Adrian Pasdar is one of the best actors this show has but you guys have underused him so much it's a crime. I Hope you make it up to us in volume 3 by keeping Nathan alive and giving him some screentime
No Nathan- lose me as a viewer
Like another poster I figured there's no way you're killing Nathan off, until I read what Kristin had to say. I don't understand how the writers could possibly think they've done everything they should with Nathan, considering he's been underutilized the entire series and especially this season. Surely you know that Adrian Pasdar is one of your best actors by far? And that Nathan is a complex character that hasn't been developed nearly to the extent that he could and should? This season was the chance to flesh him out completely, and I'm not sure why you decided he wasn't worth the time and instead spent time developing characters like Mohinder or newbies. I wish you would explain it because at this point, although I probably wouldn't watch the show if Nathan is gone, it's the irrationality of how you have treated Nathan that annoys me the most.
personally i hate nathan.. kill em off for all i care... he's still got that slimy politician air about him... with that said however i don't think they'll kill peters link to real family so soon... and well i think his powers will probably advance... in what way? i'd guess gravity manipulation... which on the offensive would mean u cud exert so much gravity on a person that they can't move... - M.L.R.
I'm a little disappointed you didn't say a word about last nights episode. Kind of disappointing given you've had some amazing posts about scenes and effects from all the episodes up till now.
Please make another post about the episode. It would make my day that much brighter!
That finale was the single greatest episode of Heroes ever. Just an amazing job with an amazing ending and "beginning". Here's hoping the return is soon!!!
Zachary Quinto is simply unreal.
Wow... so much to say, so little time. I could write an essay on this show, and how it's squandering it's potential, but I'll try and keep it under 5000 words today and just hit the high points.
After Season 1, we all seemed to think that Heroes was a great show, with a some moments of mediocrity sprinkled in (the finale being an entire episode of mediocrity). However, the last few months has me convinced that we were all wrong. Heroes is actually a mediocre show with moments of greatness. And I think it's because the writers don't really know what they have, or how to take advantage of the elements in Heroes that make people tune in every week. And that's been pretty evident this season.
Season 2 has just been bad. Really bad.
I could use the same old sophomore slump excuse that a lot of others are throwing out, but it's more than that. We saw signs of this in Season 1. Specifically in the finale. I'm not in the writer's room, so I can't be certain, but what it really feels like is sloppy writing. It feels like the writer's just don't care enough to make sure that the stories they tell are great, or that they even make sense. The characters don't do things you would expect them to do. I could give a hundred examples, but I'll just go with one for now. Why would Peter, who is so desperate to stop the plague, and is already a little unsure about Adam's motivations, not just phase through the vault door and destroy the virus himself? Why does he let Adam go in alone? How is that not a contrived, totally unbelievable decision?
And I'm not trying to say the writers are bad, just that the writing is. It's like there's no one involved in the writing process who can see a script before it shoots and say "hey, this part doesn't make any sense at all. Let's rework that a little bit." Or, at the very least, fix some of the dialogue. Sylar, at the end of the episode, doesn't say "I'm back." That's cheesy. That's something Hiro says, it's what makes him endearing and entertaining. Sylar just smiles malevolently... or something.
Anyway, a couple of points I want to make:
1. Someone mentioned in this blog a few weeks back that movies are about the story, but TV shows are about the characters, and that totally stuck with me (sorry, can't remember who said it). Season 1 had not only great characters, but great character pairings. I think the writers knew this, and tried to take those pairings in different directions this season. Unfortunately with disastrous results:
Peter/Nathan
Season 1 - These guys were probably the two most important characters to the show last season. Their chemistry as actors was amazing, and we, as viewers, totally bought into Peter as the noble younger brother who wanted to save the world, and Nathan as the morally ambiguous older brother who had his own goals, only to sacrifice it all to save his brother's life.
Season 2 - Peter lost his memory, was in Ireland, went to the future, and tried to stop a plague in a highly underwhelming story arc. Nathan went from 'is he dead' to not dead, to not doing a whole lot, to 'is he dead?' (I have more on Nathan later) Oh, and by the way, how does an assassin (HRG I'm sure) shoot Nathan in a building full of cops and just walk away???
Hiro/Ando
Season 1 - These guys were the adventuring duo that showed the ideal of comic book superheroes from the Golden and Silver Ages of comics. They were also the comic relief, and it was fun to watch their journey across America to save the world.
Season 2 - Hiro did some stuff in feudal Japan, then went after Adam in a storyline that needed more time to tell. it ended to quickly. Ando... did nothing. Seriously. The show actually paid him to contribute absolutely nothing. Ando is a good character, but only as the sidekick buddy to Hiro.
HRG/Claire
Season 1 - The surprise focus of the show last year, and deservedly so. HRG was great, and Claire was very capable as probably the main character from most of last season. And her journey to find her real parents, and her interactions with the Petrellis was fun to watch. One of the coolest moments of the show last year was the scene where she has the geeky "cool" moment after learning her dad can fly.
Season 2 - HRG tried to bring the Company down, got super overprotective of Claire, died, came back to life, and rejoined the Company. Claire got a boyfriend, and cried a lot. And whined. And got mad. And cried some more.
Mohinder/Sylar
Season 1 - This pairing's great moment culminated in the apt scene in which Mohinder fired at Sylar, who stopped the bullet, then freed himself. It was a scene that really showed that Sylar was a force to be reckoned with, and made a creepy villain even creepier.
Season 2 - Mohinder had some decent character progression, but Sylar was powerless and didn't do a whole lot until the last two episodes. Then he ended the season/volume with the cheesy "I'm back" line...
The characters are what keep us coming back, so please don't screw them up. There's a ton of great storylines in them, but I feel like it's all being stifled for the sake of overly contrived plots and situations... and terrible dialogue.
2. The action scenes in this show are horrible. Remember the episode last season "Five Years Later"? Remember when Peter and Hiro stormed that building, and everyone thought a great action scene was coming, a scene we'd been waiting all season for? And it ended up being Peter throwing a guy against a wall and Hiro somehow defeating a bunch of guys with machine guns using a samurai sword?
Well, we get more of that in this episode.
For the love of God, please think about this the next time you plan a big action scene.
3. Smallville is NOT the show you want to borrow ideas from, or writers. Smallville has become Superman's version of the 60s Batman TV show, only instead of being campy and ludicrous, it's campy and melodramatic. I know Heroes has been working with people from that show, I'm just not sure how much, but please, please, please don't use that show as a model for doing ANYTHING on Heroes. I watch Smallville to satisfy my inner comic book geek, but I have to fight through the nonsense in the show to do it. And now I'm starting to see little bits of it creep into Heroes, mostly in the poor dialogue, contrived plots, and the heavy handed drama.
Sigh... I don't have any coherent summary or wrap up to this post. It's all just some ramblings from a fan that wants this show to be more than it is, or to live up to the moments of greatness we've seen here and there (mostly there). I'll be there for Volume 3, and I'll give you guys a clean slate, but I won't be holding my breath. So take this time during the writer's strike and really THINK about the storylines, the character progression, the highs and the lows these guys will go through in V3, and make sure it's not only right for the character, but that it makes sense, and that it takes advantage of the strengths of their personalities and of the chemistry in the show.
* About Nathan... he's obviously a very popular character. Just read a forum about this show and you'll see what I mean. I don't think he's dead. In fact, it would be about the dumbest story decision I've ever seen on this show if he was, seeing as how his biological daughter can just give him blood (and I wonder if Peter is able to do it as well). Plus, like someone else mentioned, Matt got shot 4 times and survived. I think HRG shot him, and Volume 3 will spend a lot of time with the weird family dynamic between Claire's two families.
But Nathan is an interesting character to me because he seems to be the central figure in all of this. Peter is the most powerful, but Nathan is becoming the 'leader' of this supergroup it seems. He's Peter's brother, Claire's father, Matt's partner, Hiro's "flying man!" buddy, and Niki's one time affair. Plus, when he's around, he's the guy who seems to take charge, pushing Matt to go after his father, standing up to his mother, trying to out himself and the others on TV, etc. Nathan has too much potential in this show for the writers to get rid of him, unless it's several seasons down the road.
Tim Kring claim that he realized all of the mistakes that you guys have made. Well, killing off Nathan would be making another mistake.
http://boards.nbc.com/nbc/index.php?showtopic=777739
That many people agree that killing Nathan will be a big mistake. You have a chance to fix the series so I hope you don't blow it now. Nathan deserves much better than this being a plot device.
I'm *thisclose* to leaving the show. Nathan's death will be the final straw. Unless Kristen Veitch is lying about you guys being indecisive re: Nathan's fate, I have to say that I'm appalled at the lack of good decision amongst the writers. No wonder season 2 turned out as bad as it is now. You guys never really listen to the fans. You just pretend that you listen to us.
Awesome episode lastnight! But um...Please don't really kill off Nathan? Please and thank you!
I can't believe you killed Niki/Jessica. Jessy was my Favorite character on the show and one that you have not even explored yet. I am so disappointed! I hope she comes back in some form or another as a regular.
Poor us Niki lovers haven't we lost enough with DL and Jessica leaving now you take away Niki....(Goes Sobs and talks to self in a corner)
Can't wait to see if she is in next seasons premier, if not then I lost all interest.
I totally understand all the fans' comments about how they want Heroes to be. But the bottom line is, it is your story to tell, not ours. Tell it how you see fit. To me, it's more about the character development and less about the plot. Even if the plot sucks sometimes, Heroes is still the best hour of TV I watch each week. Thank you for taking the time to do this blog, I enjoy it as well.
SAVE NATHAN!
Great show I just love Heroes but to even think about killing Niki off is a horrible choice. Once we at the "I love Niki thread found out we set in motion petitions and forward this site on to many niki lovers so be prepared to be bombarded with comments and e-mails to save Niki/Jessica!!!!
As season one title goes
Save the World
save the cheerleader........
Save the show
save the Stripper.....NIKI
Save NIKI
Love live Jessica
Yeah, why were Nathan and Ando so terribly under utilized this season? Ugly Heroes writers must be jealous of Adrian.
If the writers think they can string along Nathan fans to watch volume 3 only to reveal that he's dead, then you can forget about it. No Nathan, no viewership on our part. Not to mention as someone said, it's terribly cruel to make us wait all of these months only to disappoint us.
Nathan must be brought back by all means, !!!, he is truly neglected in this chapter, his role have so much ways it can develop and by not only my opinion, he is one of the leading 3 charachters of Heroes, do not undergo ludicrous move made in Prison Break, where they killed one of most loved characters, and thus virtually undermined whole show
Killing Nathan = Heroes has jumped the shark.
Because:
* Peter will become greatly uninteresting (proof? Eh, I present: S2.)
* A great opportunity for some Claire development is gone.
* Adrian Pasdar is one of the actors who lift the show.
Honestly. This is Emmy-worthy. In the category "stupidest choice in a show. Ever."
It's not drawing me in to watch the next couple of episodes either, because, well, until I get word on "Nathan is not permanently dead", I am not watching Heroes, no matter what the show presents. Not interesting, so I'm not interested.
Greg,
If you don't do what you think is best for the show I will stop watching :) It cracks me up how people will stop watching the show because a character may or may not be killed off. Heroes is one of the best shows on t.v. and as long as you guys are putting out incredibly delicious episodes I won't stop watching. I'm keeping my finger's crossed that the show will be back on soon, I can't wait for more episodes as I'm sure you can't wait to get back to work. Happy Holidays!
OMFG, please, tell us Nathan isn't really dead (but if he's not, it would be the second time he almost passed out, so not credible). Well, I just don't understand a thing, how the killer can shoot Nathan in front of many cops and just go away like he did ? It's dumb...
By the way, thanks a lot for your blog, it's an amazing job ! I'm SO in love with this show but this seasons disapointed me, except for the brilliant interventions of Elle (wonderful Kristen <3)
But i'm SO sad that the writers killed my fav' character. Nathan is so important for the show, Adrian is truly talented and the chemistry with Peter/Milo is excellent.
SAVE NATHAN SO WE CAN SAVE THE WORLD
Please dont kill Nathan
Save Nathan, Save Heroes !!!!
No Hero on Monday...urgh. Can't we all just get along? It is a true shame that the writers strike is going to take the momentum of this show away...for viewers, fans, and the talented cast.
Come on Hollywood...get your house in order!!!
please don't kill NIKI! just let her overcome her multiple personality disorder and she'll be kickass with the rest!
Please bring Nathan Petrelli back. He is indispensible to the show.
Nikki come back we miss you.
I love this show but... SAVE the Wonder Twin and NOT SAVE Nathan. Thank stinks!
Way too much time was wasted on those Wonder Twins, their story could have been told in one scene instead of all those useles scenes that should have been given to the characters we care about. Or new characters that we care about.
All the same, I love Heroes and can't wait for Season 3. But PLEASE PLEASE Fix it.
Save the Stripper, Save the Show
I can't believe you tried to kill Niki off Bring her back!!!! She is my favorite and is the only reason I starting watching. A friend told me to start after seeing her character I am addicted so Please let her live.
I hate this show. Are the writers really lacking idea that the only thing they can come up with is to put Nathan life in danger again? And if he's dead, then this show is dead to me. You guys don't deserve any second chance whatsoever. You guys got it when you apologize for ruining season 2 and now you're ruining it again.
Are the writers really lacking idea that the only thing they can come up with is to put Nathan life in danger again? And if he's dead, then this show is dead to me. You guys don't deserve any second chance whatsoever. You guys got it when you apologize for ruining season 2 and now you're ruining it again.
PLEASE DON'T LISTEN TO THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK ABOUT SYLAR. Zachary's character is vital! I cannot live without him. So please, keep him coming. And bring back Nathan. He is the sexiest man alive! MORE MORE MORE of everyone. My life is incomplete until you guys return. Much love!!
I hope season 3 is better.
I think too much was just crammed into this season and not a lot of story and character development happened.
There were also a lot of contrived and heavy handed scenes.
As for the death. I did feel that someone shooting Nathan seemed like it was what the company
I hope he lives but really, this time, take your time in bringing him back. Make it more important to the story. See how Peter reacts to it first. And how this will affect Christine Rose's character. Like have him recover first.
As for Nikki, I also hope she returns. But also, take your time on this one. I would like to see how it affects Monica and Micah.
Ando was pretty much nothing this past season.
The villains here were underutlized as well. Matt's father would have been a better threat. Adam Monroe/Kensei could have been but it became too "explained."
I couldn't care less if Maya returns. She was whiny and boring. I like Dania Ramirez (I think she's cute!) but her role sucked. Poorly developed character.
Sylar would have been better off keeping his mouth shut in that last scene.
I agree with those who said what's the point of making Nathan Claire's father if he's not even going to interact with her like a father/daughter?
If Nathan dies, there'll be so many missed opportunities. We have yet to see Nathan interacting with HRG. Nathan/Niki itself has a lot of potential. And you guys ruin it just because you want some kind of shocking ending. Shocking ending will be forgotten a few days later but character development and interaction will last.
(1) Hiro isn't nearly as good a character without Ando hanging around with him.
(2) Nathan is too good a character to lose. He's one of the few with any real leadership potential.
(3) At least Niki's dead.
(4) In 30-40 years, when Adam/Kensei has dug himself out of the grave, he's gonna be really pissed. Hiro screws up again, leaving the problem for another generation.
I cannot word how disappointed I am with Heroes at the moment. I wanna clarify that I'm not saying this because I'm bitter that Niki and Nathan are possibly both gonna end up dead - from the moment the episode started, I felt it was really bad quality.
And I just wanna say that I feel like Tim Kring and Company lied to the fans.
There was no cleaning of the mistakes made this season - several characters (most, actually) were acting stupid, new and boring characters got to live wihle old and far more interesting characters get to "die."
It's not fair. It's not right.
And I do feel betrayed.
No longer am I going to trust the word of the writers and producers or Heroes because, honestly, they did nothing that they promised.
PLUS, this entire season has been terribly disappointing - entertaining, yes, but very poorly done (written, directed, produced...).
Niki, who will always be my favorite character on the show whether she's dead or not, was sidelined and used only as a deus ex machina for plots that weren't even major overall (instead, she served as the reason Sylar gets to carry on with his same old storyline of killing heroes...).
I can think of NUMEROUS ways to have given her character a storyline - Jessica being alive, Adam recruiting Niki (explain why the Symbol appeared on her back when Jessica took over), etc...And I'm not even a professional writer. I write for fun but that's it. It's sad that I can come up with storylines that would work perfectly fine while the pro writers just let her drift off the sidelines and then, ultimately, kill her off after she distantly assissted Sylar in rising back to his old, bland self.
The same can be said of Nathan.
Adrian Pasdar and Ali Larter are phenomenal actors. Not only do they have fantastic chemistry when they're in scenes together, but they make their individual storylines (when they had them)far more interesting and compelling than the writers likely even intended for them to be.
Killing Nathan and Niki was definitely the worst way to "clean out" the cast and mistakes the creative staff made in Volume II. And I will admit that I'm even contemplating giving up on the show if Kristen Bell leaves (and, of course, if Adrian Pasdar and Ali Larter are both gone from the cast, too).
I cannot word how disappointed and frustrated I am, Heroes-staff. I truly can't.
And so I'll just beg you: PLEASE KEEP ALI LARTER AND ADRIAN PASDAR!
If they can't keep Niki, introduced Ali as another character who's name rhymes with Nessicuh. And if they can't keep Nathan, introduce Adrian as a different role.
But getting rid of the both of them is a HORRIBLE move on the creative staff's part.
And it's something I might not be able to put behind me.
Greg,
Nice blog btw. I enjoyed season 1 but didn't enjoy season 2.
Why? Underdeveloped story-lines (who's the Petrilli father, what powers did the 12 have if any, what's the motivation of the company ect.).
Too much screen time for characters I didn't care about and too little screen time for characters I did care about. I know it's not easy to juggle a huge cast, but come on, put them all in a scene together. Read alot of comics and you'll see that this CAN be done.
Nathan and Niki dead? Honestly, I saw it comming as soon as I heard the rumers that two will die. It was not a shocker. As soon as Nathan was stepping into a press conference, I KNEW he was about to get shot. Which brings me to another annoyance, I know guns are part of life, but can't your writers come up with other ways to die other than gun shots?
At least Nikki went out in a blaze (or did she? . . . . . ).
It seems that Death in the Heroverse is contrived. If you are going to kill a character, at least make it believe and necessary to the plot. The excuse of "well people die in RL all the time" doesn't work for me, because you, the writers, have the power to create any situation your hearts and minds desire.
Now saying that, what did I love about this season?
Monica - I really like her and the fact she's starting to embrace her powers